Make Trades Great Again
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Make Trades Great Again
The Hidden Dangers of Using Customer-Supplied Fixtures
Ever wondered what it truly means to stand your ground as a tradesperson? This episode of Make Trades Great Again will enlighten you on the not-so-discussed implications of using customer-supplied equipment and fixtures. We delve into the nitty-gritty of why it's crucial to be knowledgeable about the quality of materials we use and how this impacts our businesses, both in terms of work efficiency and profitability. We also shine a light on the importance of understanding agreements and contracts when dealing with customer-supplied equipment fixtures and explain why installing equipment that customers have purchased themselves might not be the best idea.
Turn up the volume as we navigate the world of negotiating hourly rates and responsibilities. We lay bare our experiences dealing with customer-supplied fixtures and the ripple effects on our businesses. We also explore the importance of having the right person at the helm when things go awry. Wrapping up this enlightening conversation, we assert that standing firm on your business principles even if it means refusing to install equipment bought by customers, guarantees a job well done. So, step in, attune your ears and prepare to be enlightened on matters you thought you knew, and others you didn't know you should.
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Eric Aune @mechanicalhub
Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb
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The 321 Go. We are in our bonus episode.
Speaker 2:We be live.
Speaker 1:We be live, andy. How's it going, dude? Good, good, good, if somebody found us and this is the first thing they listened to. They should be reminded that we are. They're listening to the Make Trades Great Again podcast, but you know, I say that every time and it's just kind of down on me for the very first time. I never claimed to be smart, but you know, people probably know what they're listening to. You know without me saying it.
Speaker 2:Possibility, possibility that they're aware where they've logged in and clicked on, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know. They say you're supposed to repeat your. You know your name and what you do.
Speaker 2:I think it's fine, because if I'm listening to my cue of whatever and I don't know what I listen to, spotify, that's where I listen to that and I listened to our podcast as well. Just because a lot of times I'll be like, hey, we recorded this two weeks ago and my brain, my memory like short term memory for like things like this is like 45 seconds, so it's like new info to you. Yeah, you click the end and I'm like I don't even remember what we talked about like 10 seconds ago. Anyway, so I'll listen to it in like two weeks and be like oh yeah, that sounds like good, or or I sound like a complete doofus there. Um, you know, but it's it's. I appreciate it, because there's times when I will be listening to a podcast, like if I'm on like a two or three hour drive, sure it, I will. It will bounce through several different episodes and it's nice to hear who it is that is starting to talk. So I think it.
Speaker 1:I think it yeah, I think it works too for that reason. Like you just got, and then they know that a new episode has started.
Speaker 2:It's a new episode started. Yeah, because the other day I was listening to uh build show and I was listening to Travis talking and then I think I must have got on a phone call and had the radio turned down and I turned it back up and I'm like listen. And I'm like what the heck? That's not Travis, that's not Travis. And it was Roger Wakefield. And I'm like no, those they're not the same person. Yeah, why is Travis talking about, you know, getting into pipe fitting? I don't, this is not. I don't understand this.
Speaker 1:That's funny, no, well, so off top, I mean, that's not what we're going to talk about today, though I'm going to spring this one on you a little bit, uh unplanned, as are all of these bonus episodes, yeah, uh. Customer supplied equipment fixture, yeah. So this is a not just a blanket topic. I just want to bring it up. Maybe I'm just kind of venting a little bit. But, uh, I got a customer who I have done work for over the years.
Speaker 1:It's been a number of years since he's slowly like selling his business to his son, and his son uh definitely thinks that he doesn't need to hire anybody to do anything, uh, which I don't think is lovely, right. But this business is a coin operated. Um, car washes, yeah, and uh, still, I mean, there's there, there's, they're the relics though, right. So, like these car wash franchises, businesses are have blown up and they're going in every town every time. Everywhere there's a crappy, you know, commercial lot. You might think, oh, there's going to be a car washer in the next six months. I'll put money on it, you know right.
Speaker 2:These are the old school, you know.
Speaker 1:And uh, they're still maintaining them, they're still making those people money, and uh, as far as I know, they're not moving to get rid of these properties or anything. So they continue to maintain them and a lot of the, a lot of that business is done by the owner. Does that make sense? It's just kind of how it works. And so, long story short, like basically, uh, this particular owner says I got that one building, you did the water heaters in you know, like 10 years ago. And uh, they want to take them out and put something else in. And I'm not exactly sure why, but in his voicemail it's I, I'm going to buy, uh, the you know XYZ brand from Menards it's a, you know local home center and I'm like I, no, I don't, I'm not interested in piping up your store bought tankless. That isn't going to be engineered for the job, anything is just going to be what you could get out of the shelf, whatever was cheap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, whatever was cheap, and that's what it's come down to, I think, and I've avoided as calls enough. I had to answer finally, and I'm like I told them I'm not interested in the project as is, but if you'd like to have the proper design done by the resources we have at our disposal, I can get that, and you're going to pay for my time and we will put together the right system for you. And so you're not, you know, replacing them in 10 years or five, eight years I think it's been since I did the last set. You know I don't want to put other people's equipment in because I don't make any money off that. That's just the way it is as a business owner and anybody listening that, if you don't love that answer, I can't help you.
Speaker 1:I started this business to make money. Part of that in the kind of business that we run, andy's is very similar. Material does matter. It does, it does play into my bottom line eventually, and ultimately I'm not. You know, regardless of what's been written on paper or what your agreements are, I put somebody else's equipment in and two years from now, when it breaks down, they think that I owe them the repairs, and this is just not the kind of business, the kind of stuff I need to spend my time doing.
Speaker 2:Put it that way Right, We've ran into it countless times over the years. Same kind of scenario. Whether it's boilers or a new toilet or a faucet or whatever, it doesn't really matter. And I've played it, tried playing the game both directions. We did a job here a few years ago for the guys as salesmen in the plumbing and heating PVF in Washington, right, so a couple of states away, he's in the trade, he's in the business, he knows the game, he, you know whatever.
Speaker 2:And he came to me and he's like hey, you know, my in-laws have this house. They've passed away. We inherited the house. It's out. You know, it's an hour from you. We're going to do this remodel, we're going to do an addition, blah, blah, blah. We're doing a bathroom and a kitchenette in the end. So you know, it's family owned now.
Speaker 2:So there's a, you know, a brother and a sister that own the house. I think is what the deal is. There's this like four car garage that was never finished. They got turned into quasi living space. Yeah, that they wanted to put a kitchenette in a bathroom in and that way there was a separate kitchen in a bathroom for both ends of the house, you know. So sister had one end of the house brother had the other, and it didn't matter if anybody was there or not or whatever. Nobody had to time share, if you will.
Speaker 2:So he says, hey, here's what I want to do. I want you guys to come in and plumb this thing, do all the rough plumbing, and I'm going to provide all the fixtures. And I said, Okay, well, here's how we're going to here's. And I was at the time I was like Nope, no way. And then I was like, Okay, here's the deal, I don't care, Tell you what, you provide the fixtures, I'm doing the rough plumbing and then we're out. Right, that's you do all the trim out. That's all your problem. I'm not, I'm just going to do the rough in. Yeah, we'll do the rough in Soon, as soon as it's ready for drywall, we're, we're going to bail and you just do, you, and you know we did that.
Speaker 2:And then he's like calls me like a month later. He's like yeah, I just don't know how to do this. Can you come do the trim out? And I'm like I, you know, drag my feet. Yeah, I mean nice guy, you know. And he's like I just this isn't my game, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like All right, so why did you provide this stuff then? Why, I mean, why were you so hell bent on providing it? Well, you know the cost and this, that and the other, and I can get it for cheap. And I was like All right. So I himmed and hot and we ended up back, went back to him and I said, All right, well, it's going to be $50 an hour, more Time of material and the warranty's on you. Wow, geez, you know that's expensive. And I'm like, well, okay, we should have, let me provide the fixtures. Then, yeah, I mean one way or another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one way or another you're gonna pay. That's the problem. But and we are talking oftentimes about the quality and stuff and reliability and the you know, shorter life spans and expectancies and performances often not as good as you know the pro model, let's say so there should be value there to the end user.
Speaker 2:I would say that largely what I'm running into right now is much less of hey, I wanna go to Lowe's, or I wanna go to Home Depot, or I wanna go to Menards, or I'm buying this off of Amazon. It's somebody saying I'm buying this off of buildcom, or I'm buying this from Kohler Direct, or I'm buying this from you know Lowe's, you know eFaucets or whatever. It's the same thing you're gonna provide, but I'm buying it at your cost, right, you know? Because, like Kohler, for instance, and this drives me actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, regardless of what they pay, though, go ahead.
Speaker 2:But this drives me bonkers, because I'll go onto you know Kohler's website and I'll be like, okay, we're gonna get this freestanding bathtub, you know, and it's list price is $2,500, right, so I buy it at whatever you know, let's say you know 75% of list, and I mark that up and send it back to the customer. And the customer goes well, I can buy that exact same bathtub on Kohler's website and it's 30% off this week, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, well, okay, that's you know, 15% less than I was paying for it, or whatever the deal is. And I'm like, I mean, how do you argue with that? You know you come out and you look bad. And so we've kind of just taken that stance and said you know what, if you want to take, if you want to provide your own fixtures, if that's where you're going, here's our hourly rate and here's the waiver that you're gonna sign, saying that you assume all responsibility for everything on this job in relation to that and it doesn't hurt people.
Speaker 2:It's a pain.
Speaker 1:I've heard people say other things. Like you know, go ahead, but as soon as you know, you pay me once I'm on site. So if your stuff isn't in the right spot, labeled everything you know, you're just gonna pay me for standing there until you put it in the right spot and label it. I think all of that, I think that approach maybe I'm over simplifying it, but I'm using it as an example obviously right and so like I think that approach just waste time, like I don't want to spend time telling people all the reasons why I don't want to install your stuff, and it's not the only way I make money. But the thing is it's not about the money today.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I've come to learn, after you know this, how many years, freaking, almost 20, you know not quite, but it's that callback, it's that warranty call, it's that well, you just installed this, we think you should fix it, kind of call that's going to happen like two years from now and everybody's going to forget who supplied that faucet, but they're not going to forget that it doesn't work and they're not going to forget that you charged them yeah you put that in.
Speaker 1:We paid you to put that in, you know. So, like it's all of that that I shy away from, I could look at this tank list, this car wash thing. I could look at it this way, like I could kind of go the route what you're saying and just say, like here's the cost from me to install and pipe it, and then you do the startup. Right, maybe I look at it that way Because I, you know, it's not like I don't want the work. Yeah, I just wish it was a little more on my terms, and so maybe I maybe I look at it that way and I just deal with the guy and propose that to him and see what he says. Otherwise I'm telling him no, I'm not doing it that way. If you want me to do it, I'll go. I won't get back into it, but we'll design it properly and we'll put in our equipment.
Speaker 2:Right. I guess I look at it in a case and I've had this conversation with customers a couple times and they kind of get cranky about it and I'm like, okay, so you're going to go to, you know, the nicest steakhouse in town. You don't walk through the door and go, hey, nice steakhouse, man, this is, this place is awesome, that steak looks phenomenal. And you don't. We've reached in your pocket and pull out a T-bone and be like, hey, cook this one. Yeah Right, they're going to be like, yeah, beat it, get out of here. I mean, it's the same kind of concept.
Speaker 1:No, it's not, it's a yeah. It's. Don't even call it a concept, it's the same thing, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:And but I've had that conversation with customers and they just they get pissed off. And I'm like you know what I'm just trying to, I'm trying to shed some light on. You know where I'm coming from. You're not understanding why it is that I'm reluctant to put in your parts. And, ultimately, if, if you go to the steakhouse and they cook your steak well done, and you wanted it medium rare and they cook it well done and they bring it out, who's on the hook? The chef? That's the bad guy Right. So, if, if, if I, if I come and install your toilet and the tank's leaking and it ruins the floor, who's on the hook? The plumber Right. Yup Cause, that's the way this works.
Speaker 1:And I don't have any money into it.
Speaker 2:So other one, and that's where we came, and not that we came up with it, but that's where we decided we're going to put $50 an hour on our hourly rate and I don't get it. I mean, you're providing fixtures, it's the entire job. Is $50 an hour over? I don't know, Sorry.
Speaker 1:Well, you know I'm going to think about this one and I'll let you know what I come up with. I'm leaning towards you know, sticking to my guns and like the only way you're going to see me doing this is with you know. Properly designed, but we'll see how it goes. Yeah, yeah, dude, we're going to wrap it right there.
Speaker 2:There it is.
Speaker 1:Get that bread. You got to go get that bread. All right, dude, take it easy.
Speaker 2:See ya.
